Northeast Michigan Oral History and Historic Photograph Archive

Doris Knechtel & Hattie Sheppler Interview

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Interview Part 2: Interview Part 2
Transcription: BL. It was the easiest way to unload it. DK. Yeah. 'Cause I know that for a fact, because I worked for Olds. HS. (simultaneously with previous) West Virginia was a big coal area - DK. Hm? HS. West Virginia was a big coal area. DK. I worked for Oles Coal for quite a few years. CK. Were there passenger boats at all, that you recall, or -? DK. No, only that one that they used to have, that summer passenger - HS. Yeah, that used to come from Detroit . . . BL. They had that great big one, there was one called the South American. DK. I have no idea. BL. That was a really big vessel that used to come even in the 1930's and 40's. DK. But I think it only was once a year. BL. Maybe once a year. DK. and that was a big deal, and only . . . HS. I remember the Snow Train, the train. BL. Oh, yes. HS. . . . coming and bringing- DK. Oh, yes, the Snow Train! HS. . . . people in the wintertime, you know, from down below. BL. Tell us where people stayed when they came up here when the hotels were full. HS. I don't really know . . . BL. Do you remember? HS. . . .where they stayed, maybe with family? Did they have family? BL. People would rent out rooms . . . HS. Rooms? BL. . . . to strangers . . . HS. Did they rent out rooms? BL. . . . in their homes, yes. HS. Yeah. BL. And they always used to laugh, because the train ran from Detroit to Bay City to Alpena, and people started partying in Detroit. HS. Oh, I . . . yeah. BL. And by the time, in Bay City, and by the time they got here, they used to laugh that they would pour some of the passengers off the -off the train, and then the Queen was always there, sitting on the back. HS. Right, right. DK. Oh, and that throne was always so pretty. HS. Oh, I know, and I can remember when we were- DK. And Mich-e-ke-wis. HS. When we were kids, and we thought it was such a big deal to skate around the ring with the Snow Queen, you know. BL. Do you remember who the first Snow Queen was? HS. I . . . really don't remember the first one - who was it? BL. Mary Maharg Fletcher. HS. Oh, really. BL. Mary Fletcher was the first one. HS. Really. I remember a couple . . . DK. We used to sell - HS. . . . of them, but not the first one. DK. . . . pins or something, uh, the one who could sell the most pins. BL. Yes. DK. . . . got to be the Queen. HS. Yep, yup, mm hm. BL. And do you remember the tob - the toboggan sled at- HS. Oh, I've gone down that a few times. DK. Oh, yes. BL. Tell us a little bit about that if you have some memories of it. DK. Oh! HS. I just remember- BL. It was a gigantic sled- HS. . . . we used to go there and go down, you know, you'd go up the stairs and up the . . . BL. Wasn't it? They said you'd hit 40, 50 miles an hour sometimes! HS. Oh, I guess - it was a thrill! DK. You know what, in the wintertime, uh, of course, we lived in the 700 block. BL. Oh, you were right by it! DK. Yeah- HS. Yeah, you did live close by- DK. After it had been there for a while, the - my brothers and I - the fellows would let us ride it, and we'd go skating, and then we would take the toboggan, and if you got out on the lake, you could almost make it home! BL. Yes, because it - it- DK. And then we'd ta- BL. . . .was angled so you could go down and go down and down the beach. HS. Oh, right, I know. DK. Oh. BL. it was right by one of the water works. DK. And if somebody didn't hold ya tightly, your knees would hit that side - oh, did that hurt! (Laughter) HS. Oh, I've been down that a few times. CK. You took your own toboggan? DK. No. BL. No, you rented 'em. I'll have to show you a picture of it, Cindy - because it stood- CK. I - I saw the- BL. Yes, it's like 50 feet high or more! DK. And then- HS. But it didn't cost anything to ride it. BL. It was free. DK. And- HS. You could go, you know - DK. And you got on it, then all of a sudden - HS. Oh, yeah, and there were quite a few people. DK. (Simultaneously with line above) it'd let loose and you'd go down. HS. . . . on one toboggan and we'd go down, I don't know how many they had held- BL. I put a- DK. More than one. BL. I put a picture of it on our library website. HS. Uhhuh. BL. -and a woman wrote in and said - "That's very scary, no wonder my great uncle got a heart attack and died after riding on it". And she maintains that's why it was stopped. And I've never been able to prove that story, I couldn't get a hold of her. HS. I've never heard that. I don't know why that was stopped. DK. Shouldn't have been on it! BL. That's right! HS. Well, you know, our entertainment in those years, I can remember we'd go - come home from school - (inaudible) on the North Side, and we'd do our chores or have get to eat, then we'd pick up friends all the way down the street and we'd walk to Mich-e-ke-wis, skate all night . . . well, not all night, but skate for quite a while, and then walk home. So, you know, that was quite a - CK. That was quite a hike! HS. We got enough exercise. DK. Nobody was overweight! HS. No. CK. Now remember - No wonder you don't remember the bus line, you walked. BL. Yes. HS. No, we did - we walked wherever we went. DK. They - they weren't running then, when like the toboggan slide and all that. BL. No. DK. That was after that. BL. After that. HS. And sometimes someone would stop and offer us a ride. Well, that was no problem, getting in the car and taking a ride, you know, never thought twice about it. That was just a-(Laughter) DK. If they were breathin' and drivin', you drove. BL. And there was a famous hamburger restaurant across from Mich-e-ke-wis. DK. Oh! Push-em-up Tony! HS. Oooh! BL. Do you have memories of that place and him? HS. Sure! Sure, that's when I was dating, that's where we'd go, the movie and go and get a hamburger from - BL. Can you share a little bit, stories about him? HS. Push-em-up Tony's, and that was our date. Didn't cost very much - I was a cheap date. DK. It was wonderful. HS. Yeah, yup. We were DK. He was a character. CK. So what did they - was it a drive in, or -? DK. Oh, heavens, no. BL. No, it was a little diner. HS. Yeah, a diner. BL. With a grill right by the door. HS. Right. BL. Um . . . DK. And if you - if you didn't like onions, honey, don't go there. BL. Don't go there - and, "Do you want hot sauce? Do you want hot sauce?" No. Pffffffft! He'd get- (Laughter) HS. That was a lot. Another saying, now, you know we'd skate, we never had, you know, money for any treats or anything, we could smell - BL. Aaaah. HS. -that smell! I was so hungry! BL. Oh, I remember it when I was a kid. And he had a cat in there, and they used to joke that he'd pet the cat and then make the hamburger patties . . . DK. That was not true. BL. No. No. DK. He was a very clean man, he really was. BL. He was Yugoslavian, I believe. DK. Yup. HS. Yup. CK. What was his name? BL. Uh, Tony - and I can't pronounce the last name. DK. I can't either. BL. He had an Americanized name, but I can find it. DK. And he used to send money - I, I worked at the bank back then, and he used to ah, send a lot of money back to his family, and it was a name about that long. BL. He had, um, he had very pretty waitresses, and I remember someone telling me that they, they were very heavily made up, and lots of lipstick (and very sharp-looking, and a couple came in, an older woman and her daughter came in and was reminiscing about Tony's and I almost said that, and I thought to myself, 'No, keep your mouth shut', and she said "I was a waitress at Tony's". (Laughter) HS. Yeah, I know he used to let them drive his car. DK. Yup. HS. Yup. They got a few perks if they- BL. Yeah. HS. . . . looked good enough, you know. Doris Kline was one of them. BL. Oh really? DK. Oh, did she work there? I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But, uh, my, my good friend Lois Hampton, her dad, that was the only house on Mason Street, that she lived on. HS. Yeah, oh yeah, how about that? DK. Oh, gosh. CK. So, what else, other things did you do for entertainment? In the wintertime, you'd go to . . . go tobogganing- HS. Yeah. CK. . . . and skating. HS. Yeah, skate. DK. That's pretty much it. HS. Pretty much, yeah, we didn't you know, have a - we'd go to the movies for ten cents, you know, or something. CK. At The Ma- Maltz? HS. At The Lyric, because they used to have a - DK. On Saturday, oh boy, you could go all day. BL. And Lyric was cheaper. HS. Yeah, it was. And we'd go there and, and you could stay all afternoon, because they'd keep running 'em over and over, you know, and, well, we did - I don't know, we never thought about what do we do next? Play outside, you know? I don't know. BL. Sometimes they even ran old silent serials, too, at the Lyric, just to kind of fill in. But I remember Flash Gordon, they were showing that even when I was a kid yet. HS. The Green Hornet, BL. Green Hornet. HS. And oh, a lot of, cowboy BL. Tom Mix. HS. . . . series. Tom Mix, yeah. CK. Where was The Lyric located? BL. Uuum, DK. On, uh, I think- BL. On Chisholm Street- DK. On Chisholm Street! BL. . . . about where the Culligan Plaza is. DK. Yeah. BL. where the parking lot for the - behind the Culligan Plaza, right in there. HS. What is that name of that street? DK. Chisholm Street. BL. Chisholm Street. HS. Chisholm that runs down that way? Ok, yeah. DK. 'Cause I - I was really, uh, just had my license, I got my license when I was fourteen, and, uh, anyway, I - was snowing in the wintertime, and I came along, and it was on a Saturday, and I don't know where I was comin' from, whether I'd worked or what, but I - this kid, I hit him with the car, and he was going into the, into The Lyric Theatre, and I got out and I was so upset, and he said "C'mon, we're goin' to the movies!" (Laughter) What's your name? He gave me his name and I thought, I - I can't, I can't just let him go in there, whether he was hurt or not. I went down to the police station with him - "Aw, don't worry about it, they've got so many, they wouldn't even miss 'im". (Laughter) They were just being funny. They must've known the family, but . . . that kid. (Laughing) BL. Which hospital would it have been? Which hospital would it have been then? DK. McRae. HS. Yeah. McRae. BL. On the corner of Washington and Mirre? HS. Yup. I remember that. DK. Yup. It would've been McRae. HS. And I also remember the Poor Farm. Remember the Poor Farm? BL. Oh, yes. HS. Because as kids we used to have to go caroling from the church over there and visit people - it was - it's the Health Department now, isn't it? BL. Yes - Uh, no, it's part of the college. HS. Oh, is it? Part of the college? BL. Which church did you attend then? HS. St. Paul's. BL. St. Paul's, ok. Uh, do you remember, on the grounds where the hospital is now, there was a little detention house- DK. Mm hm, my mother was there. BL. . . . where they put people with contagious diseases? DK. She was there for one Christmas. BL. For - ? DK. Do you want me to tell you what I got for Christmas that year? BL. A lump of coal, I hope not? Um, may I ask what she was there for? DK. I - I . . . diphtheria or something? BL. Could've been diphtheria, was quite common, or smallpox, perhaps, or . . . DK. And I know that, I can remember them bringing her- there was a bay window on the front and I can remember them bringing my Mom to the bay window. BL. You obviously couldn't go in. DK. Oh, no, no. BL. But you could see her through the bay window. DK. We could see her through the window. HS. But they used to have cattle there, didn't they? And, and they used to have their own - grow their own vegetables? BL. At the, uh, "Poor Farm" as they called it then - yes, they did. I'm not sure if they had cattle, but I know a garden for sure. HS. I thought they had- BL. They probably did. But I know across the street, by the Duck Park, which they - I hate that name - was Oxbow Farm, where they had a dairy farm there. So, in that area- HS. Mm hm. Right. CK. So, the Poor Farm was what DK. Is the community that community -er the college or whatever's . . . CK. What was it - what was it used for? BL. When people grew older and were destitute or couldn't take care of themselves DK. (Laughing) Like Tendercare is - BL. It was called - it was called -- Like what? DK. Like Tendercare. BL. It was called, um, "going on the county", they often said. CK. Oh, "you're going on the county"? HS. They took care of 'em, yeah. BL. And if you were able to work, they would send you out, uh, free labor on farms and things like that, and if you couldn't, you didn't. DK. Better setup than what they got know, probably. BL. Yes. CK. So speaking of going to work out on farms, I recall you telling me that there was a . . . truck that used to come into town and pick people up - HS. We used to have to meet at - at, at the corner DK. That was the Eagles'. HS. Eagles drove it. Mrs. . . no, not Mrs. Eagle didn't . . . Well, yeah, she did drive it, because she was also the patch boss. DK. Eagles. HS. And they - just a big truck, you know, and, and pick up us kids and we'd go and pick berries. BL. Where did they pick you up? HS. Uh, I think it was on the corner of State and something else, down there. I can't remember the exact, ah, name of the street, but we'd have to be there at a certain time, and we'd get on the back of the truck, and they'd drive us out to the strawberry farm - strawberry and - and raspberries when they were ripe, and it would cost us 25 cents. DK. Twenty or twenty-five cents. HS. . . . for the trip. BL. Ok. HS. So when we made, uh, our fee for our trip, then everything else was, you know, kind of our spending money for the summer. BL. About how much would you make, do you remember, a quart? HS. Well, I think we used to get like five cents a quart, picking berries, and then, I I don't know, you know, we goofed off a lot, too, but - probably we were lucky if we made maybe three or four bucks or fi- BL. Well- DK. Still a lot of berries. HS. And then we'd make sure that we made another quarter so we could go roller skating at uh, the roller rink, over here at the - what'd they call it - German Hall- used to be. BL. German Hall. There was a roller rink - upstairs? HS. Yeah. Oh, yeah. BL. I was up in that building, not too long ago, and it looks just the way it did in the old days. HS. Really. BL. Yes. HS. Oh, yeah. It was upstairs and you would have to, uh, rent roller skates, you know. BL. It's now Nowicki's Sausage Shop. HS. Yeah. BL. On the corner. It has the most beautiful tin ceiling and everything. HS. And we used to, oh we used to love to go roller skating, but, it was a quarter, and if we didn't have a quarter, uh, my future husband who was then working - and his sisters, and his one sister and I were very good friends - and we would ask him if we could press his pants for a quarter. DK. (Laughter) He had the best pressed pants in town. CK. You must've done a very good job, Hattie! HS. We would press his pants so we could go roller skating. BL. One thing about the strawberry patch, while I think about it - did you take your own lunch out there? HS. Yes. DK. Oh, yeah. HS. Oh, yeah, you carried your own lunch, uh huh. DK. I got ground up meat and pickles - oooh! BL. Ooh, my favorite still. HS. I can remember my mother would send us with a little can of baked beans and an opener, and uh, we ate out of the cans. (Laughing) BL. That was lunch. HS. Yeah. (Laughing) Uh, I don't know, sometimes I wonder, where was my mother? What was she doing when I was doing all this? We were pretty well on our own, because she was a widow with four kids, and we kind of raised ourselves. I always tell the story about smoking, and my - I had three brothers, and uh, of course you know, learned a lot of life's lessons there, and uh, my brother and I, the oldest one, and a couple of his friends went out in a field . . . do you know what Indian tobacco is? BL. Corn tassels? HS. No, it was a weed. BL. (inaudible). CK. It has brown on top- HS. Yeah, and you go like this with your hand, and you had a handful of what looked like tobacco, and we smoked that in newspapers, and I was so sick . . . DK. (Laughter) BL. Well, who knows what it was? HS. That was the end of my smoking - I've never smoked, I guess it was a blessing in disguise. I came home, and I know my mother was working and I was supposed to be doing some housework, and I was sick in bed. She never knew what really made me so sick, but, yeah. BL. Don't bet on that. (Laughter) I used to go home, and think I didn't smell of cigarettes, and later I found out . . . HS. Oh, my gosh. BL. Oh my gosh. You do. HS. But they couldn't afford cigarette papers, you know, and we smoked it in newspaper. DK. After they get a load of it they knew where to find a cigarette butt, too, eh? HS. Oh, I know. BL. Kind of on the same topic, I know that they made cigars in Alpena for the longest time - do you have any memories of that? HS. Well, I knew where it was - BL. Mm hm. HS. - up above the Power Company building. DK. Yeah. HS. That they're gonna tear down. BL. Ok. HS. It was upstairs, because- BL. That was Larsen's Furniture at one time. DK. Yep. BL. Later. HS. Was it Larsen's Furniture up there? BL. Mm hm, he moved there at one time HS. Really? BL. Later, yes. DK. Ok. BL. But it was up there. Ok, that one I didn't know about. HS. Because my, uh, sister- in- laws, they both worked there. DK. My mother worked- BL. Making cigars? HS. Making cigars. DK. My mother worked there for, for a little bit. BL. People are so surprised about that, HS. Yeah. BL. . . . and I said, well they just brought the leaf in and set them up with the - the molds and everything. HS. Yeah, I guess, I don't know how they made 'em . . . BL. And there were Alpena brands and things. HS. Yes, uh huh. CK. Huh. I wonder where they'd go the tobacco, they would just . . . BL. Pennsylvania probably, there was a lot grown there, or anywhere further south. HS. Yeah, there was a BL. And on the corner next to where Rene's Jewelry was, at the last point on the corner of River and Second, Jacob Levin or Levine had a big tobacco shop there also, but that was probably gone by that time. HS. Mmm. CK. And the bowling alley, did you ever go there? DK. Mm hm HS. About The Trianon? CK. The Trianon. BL. The Trianon Nightclub, did you go there, and the bowling alley? HS. Oh, yeah, I was not a bowler, but I knew there was a bowling alley, and had been to the Trianon. BL. Yeah, Howe ran it. Mr. Howe. DK. Yeah. HS. Yeah. Yeah. What's a bow - he had the bowling alley. Yeah. CK. Is that related to Grace Howe? DK. I've got, I've got a picture of it, of that. HS. Do ya? DK. Of - in the back, 'cause we were city champs. HS. . . . pictures of . . . BL. (laughter) Ok . . . Come on now, I want to see those pictures! CK. Doris, you're gon - gonna have to . . . DK. Yeah. HS. I don't have any pictures. BL. Um, I don't know if he's related to Grace Howe or not. HS. I don't know whether he was. DK. I don't think he was. HS. You don't think he was? DK. I don't think he was. BL. And later there was a fire there and then he moved out to where the bowling alley is now. DK. Yeah. HS. Oh really. I don't . . . CK. And did they have dances and things up there, too? HS. Oh, sure. DK. I never went to the Trianon. HS. The Trianon, yeah. DK. I - I couldn't get in, I wasn't old enough. CK. What - what was it like? What . . . There was the bowling alley, was part of it DK. There was . . . yeah. HS. Well, this was, The Trianon was all separate. BL. Were there two separate staircases? HS. Yes, yes. DK. No. (at same time) HS. No, not two separate staircases. DK. No, uh uh. BL. Ok, you went one way for the bowling alley DK. You took one set to the bowling alley and the other went into the Trianon. BL. And left to the Trianon? DK. Yeah, on the river side. BL. Because they overlooked the river. HS. Right. Right. Uh huh. BL. They had, uh, entertainment dances, they had entertainment. HS. Uh huh, uh huh. BL. They had someone like Betty Hutton's sister sing there. DK. Yeah, at one time. Yeah, or so they said. But I - I - They wouldn't let me in. CK. And I think Bobby Rigg said that his Dad, Tubby, played there. HS. Tubby, uh huh . . . could very well be. Uh huh. Yeah. BL. Hm. DK. (inaudible) . . . but, uh. BL. Someone told me an interesting story about the Trianon at a - it was in the summer and all the windows were open, and a underage boy came in and wanted to be served, and they wouldn't serve him because they knew he wasn't old enough, and he started causing a fuss. Well, the bartender came around the bar and was going to call the police, and the kid ran down the length of the building and jumped right through the window into the river. (Laughter) DK. Wow! HS. Oh, my. CK. What about work? What kind of work did you do early - or your early jobs. HS. Well, I think my first real job was at the Alpena Hotel. I worked for the Keenan's. BL. Mm hm. HS. At the Alpena Hotel, as a waitress and ah- CK. That was located where? HS. On Chisholm. BL. Oh, across from the Visitors and Convention Bureau. DK. Yeah, and First Merit. HS. They just rec - well, they didn't just recently tear it down, but it was (inaudible) the last-- CK. Kentucky - the Motor Lodge? HS. Yeah, it was the Motor Lodge. BL. Yeah, yeah. The O'Neil's owned it at one time. HS. Yeah. Yeah. DK. Yeah. CK. And it was originally called the Alpena Hotel? HS. Did the O'Neil's own it before the Keenan's? BL. I believe so. HS. The reason I asked you that is because Bill O'Neil - don't know if you remember- BL. Bill and Yvonne? Or is this an older O'Neil? HS. Uh, well, he's . . . would be about my age. BL. Ok, no, I'm thinking of a different O'Neil then. HS. Ok. He was the desk clerk. BL. Ok, then they're related to the Bill O'Neil I know that's married to Yvonne that are younger than - younger generation. HS. They probably were, and uh, he was the desk clerk, and Lucille Nowak - the Nowak's used to have a clothing store? BL. Mm hm. HS. And she was part of that family and she worked there, and they ended up in a relationship and getting married, and uh, he used to have a beautiful tenor voice, Bill O'Neil, and my mother-in-law, well, she wasn't my mother-in-law then, but she cooked there, and uh, she used to have Bill sing for his breakfast. BL. Oh. An Irish tenor. HS. He had a beautiful Irish tenor. CK. And then where did you work after that? HS. Well, I worked at, um, Ryan's, you know, as a waitress also. And then during the war, I worked at the Thunder Bay Manufacturing Company, we made machine gun parts, BL. Mm hm. HS. . . . worked on a drill press and a milling machine. BL. Oh my gosh. HS. And uh, I also . . .then when . . . of course, after the war there was no work there, I was laid off, drawing unemployment, and I was getting so bored - there was a sign in Marshall's Bakery that they needed help, wanted help, and I worked at Marshall's Bakery and then I worked - then I worked at Alpena Public Schools as - in the reading and math program- BL. Oh! HS. -and then after I retired from Alpena Public Schools, I worked as a volunteer at Shelter, Incorporated and then they wanted me to be a part of the staff, so I worked there until I decided un-uh, DK. The third time BL. Enough. HS. I'm eighty two, I just want to be - I don't wanna work anymore. So. DK. That was the third time, it's like her birthday, she's . . . HS. Oh, and I also did work at Traynor's in Highland Park for a while. I moved down there with a family of friends, and I worked right across from the Ford factory in, in Highland Park, and, and I remember that so well, because at that time we couldn't refuse to serve the colored, but we had a special menu. BL. Oh. HS. . . . that we gave them when they came in. BL. Mm hm. HS. With the prices, you know, jacked way high. BL. Oh my goodness - to discourage them from staying. HS. Mm hm. And of course, then they would look at the menu and leave, and that was pretty scary sometimes, because they would gather outside like protesting the whole situation, you know. BL. They knew what was going on. HS. Sure. But at that time, that's how things were, you know. BL. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. CK. Mm hm, mm hm. DK. That was in the 40s, wasn't it? HS. Oh, gosh, I'm thinking. DK. Or 50s? HS. I don't really remember the years, but it was, uh . . . Let me see, I was probably about eighteen, maybe, so that was, born '25, it'd be around- CK. '43. HS. / BL. '43, yeah. HS. But it was a whole restaurant, they were so busy because the shifts, you know, they'd get out of the shifts that they worked and they'd come across the street and get something to eat before they went home. Yeah, so I worked in quite a few places. CK. Places - you did. HS. When I think back, you know, I think, yeah, I really did work in a lot of different places in my time. CK. How about you, Doris, when did you start working? Where was your first job? DK. Well, I babysat for a long time, and then uh, when I was in high school, I had working papers and I worked at Woolworth and that was when it's like for Kennedy - Kennedy's Jewelry, I worked there all the time I was in high school, and, uh, and I got out, and then I worked for Ole's Coal, then I went for the bank BL. Which Oles was that, that owned it? DK. Frank BL. Frank, ok. DK. And, uh, and then I left there and I went to work at the bank. CK. Which bank? DK. At that time, it was Alpena Savings. CK. Ok. Ok. DK. It was a very small, really nice to work. CK. Bob, did you want to ask something about the Knechtel connection? BL. Yes, what is the Knechtel connection? Family connection, with - with the greenhouse. DK. With the greenhouse? Um, Vic is one of five boys in that family, and Harold was the oldest, and he married Margaret, BL. Ok, I see. DK. And, uh, they had the two kids, BL. Mm hm. DK. Sue and Dennis. BL. Ok. Um, there's another - there's a character in town that I've been working with a lot of his papers and I wondered if you ever ran across him, and that's Henry Gustin. Does that ring a bell? He was an attorney. DK. Mm mm. HS. No, it doesn't. BL. Um, do you - when you were kids, the library would have been in the old Fletcher building that was on this site. HS. Uh huh. BL. Do you remember coming into that building or visiting the library there? HS. Oh, sure. When we were in high school, you know, we used to come and-. BL. Ok. It burned in '36, and Emily Oliver was one of the early librarians. Do you have any memories of the inside of the building, anything at all, probably as a, maybe not as a child HS. My memory was of the spring outside, the smell. BL. Ok, that's - ok, that's, that's still true today. HS. We used to call it muggy water and it was just a good thing we . . . you know, say "take a drink, it's good for ya!" BL. And people did. HS. Oh, I know - I did. BL. Ooh, you're braver than I am. DK. The post office was over here. At that time. HS. Yeah, the post office was across the street. BL. Right across the street. The Federal Building. And Harriet Hansen worked there forever and ever and ever. Behind the desk. HS. Harriet Hansen, yeah, I remember her. BL. She lived out at the end of Washington and she walked from there, here and then walked back at lunch to take care of her mother or sister, who was disabled, then walked back to work, and then went home in the evening. HS. Yep, yep. BL. For thirty years. HS. Really. DK. Well, you know, everybody walked then. HS. Well, yeah, it was no big deal, you wanted to go someplace - my parents never owned a car, so, you know. If I was, you know. It was kind of- DK. I think we had more snow back then, too. BL. Yes. HS. It did seem like we never had snow days, yeah. Uh, it was a treat for us to go to the South Side, to go for a ride. BL. Really? HS. You know, somebody'd take us - well, when I first started dating, you know, my husband, and he got a job at Besser's - he worked there for 48 years. BL. Mmm. HS. And uh, out of high school he got a job. BL. Mm hm. HS. First he bought a bicycle - he used to walk to work- he bought a bicycle and he used to ride his bicycle to work. Then he bought another bicycle, because he wanted one for every day and one for Sunday. So . . . then he bought a car, and his sisters would say to me, "Ask him to take us for a ride, 'cause if you ask him, he'll take us." So I used to say, "Dick, take us for a ride . . ." this usually was on a weekend, he'd take us for a ride and oh, that was such a treat, we'd get on the south side of town and . . . BL. Sunday drive. CK. How far would you go? HS. Well, just around town, all around, you know, kind of a - not too very far, but that was when gas was three gallons for a dollar, so it . . . uh huh, yup. CK. And was Besser at that time was it located where it is now? HS. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I have a picture when there were only the first group. Where they are, you know. BL. Do you have any memories of, uh, Jesse Besser himself, or . . . ? HS. Oh, yes, because when I worked at the Alpena Hotel, he use to bring his salesmen in there. BL. Ok. HS. He used to eat there quite a bit. BL. Oh, he did? HS. He always had a three egg omelet. BL. Ok. HS. And, uh, he was such a gentleman. BL. That's what I understand. HS. Because he used to introduce me, you know, he'd say, "this is so-and-so," you know, and they used to - we used to close up after, uh, the lunch period at two o'clock and then open up again later in the day for dinner, and he used to sit there after the place closed to, you know, to dinners or lunches and with his salesmen and they'd have their meetings, and, and uh - yes. And, uh, his wife, Anna Besser, so my husband tells me, would come around the shop, you know, and visit with the- BL. Really? HS. -people that worked there, and, and I know that when he got married, he got a nickel raise, 'cause he started at fifty cents an hour. BL. Your husband? HS. Mm hm. He got a nickel raise, and she came and asked him, "Did you see the raise in your check this time?" And she used to be in the shop a lot. BL. Really? I didn't know that. HS. Yeah, and visit with the workers, you know? BL. They used to say he would wear his galoshes around all the time to preserve his shoes, it was kind of a story. HS. You know, I don't remember that, but I know he was a non-drinker. BL. Well- HS. And uh, the fellas, the salesmen would be there before him, and they'd be in the bar, well the minute that he came in- BL. Well, there's a story, too, that in business in the old days, gifts of liquor were very common, and, um, she would confiscate all of them and uh - Anna Mulvena Besser - take them to the dump and pour them out or break the bottles. HS. Really? BL. Yes. She would not give them away or let anyone have them. HS. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he was a very gentle, very gentle, big, tall guy. BL. Yes, gentleman. HS. Uh huh. Yeah, I waited on him several times. BL. Well, good. CK. So, did she make note of the f- why he got that raise, did she tell him it was because he had gotten married? DK. Mm hm. HS. Well, I don't know, I guess, he must have because, uh, it was a well-known fact I guess when he got - but, uh, yeah, he was, uh . . . and then, when uh, my husband went to school, they sent him to school, uh, he was a tool and die maker, he was leader in the tool shop, BL. Mm. HS. but, uh, he got his other education after high school after he worked at Besser's, you know, through them. BL. Through them. HS. Mm hm. Yep, they had a lot of labor problems, not when he was there so much, but later on. You know, but every contract time you could bet your bottom dollar there was going to be a strike, and . . . BL. This was not a union-friendly town. HS. No. BL. Never. HS. It wasn't then. BL. Never was. HS. No. BL. Hm. HS. The fellas that worked there before union, before the union, they got together and uh, started a whatever, and worked the stock markets, you know, so they would have something. BL. Extra. HS. Some sort of a investment. CK. Ok, ok. HS. So, they had - they were quite successful with that, you know, for a while because they were thinking of retirement and things, you know? CK. Mm hm, mm hm, and when you've got more than one mind working on that, you can - HS. Right. CK. Yup. Well, that was good foresight. Well, I think . . . we've covered a lot of topics, is there anything that anyone would like to add? HS. Can't think of anything. CK. I, I have one question. Do either of you have memory of the bean factory that was by Thunder Bay Manufacturing, where they processed dried beans? BL. Near the train station. CK. Was it? BL. It was a big, square huge building. HS. I do not. BL. Roger's Brothers Seeds. HS. No, I do not. Uh uh. CK. Ok. Yup. DK. Nope. That doesn't ring a bell at all. BL. Ok. CK. It was a seed factory. BL. Yeah. HS. Seed factory? Mm hm. CK. Bob, anything else? BL. Nothing that I can think of - this has been so much fun, I've really enjoyed it; I hope you have, too. HS. It's been interesting just reminiscing, you know. It's been fun. BL. It really is. DK. You know, if - if Vic were alive - he always said that, where we live, 'course- CK. You did eventually move to the North Side. DK. Yeah, I'm an import. (Laughter) BL. And what street was that, then, that you were on? DK. On Ford. BL. Ok, Ford, that's right. DK. Yeah. And where we are, I've got a picture of them, where you know where you can see The Lake- HS. Ah. DK. -and there's something about when they put this railroad track, because that at one time that was the Knitz farm from what Vic said. HS. Oh, behind - that would be behind me. DK. Yeah. From behind - that they had to (HS. Yeah. I had heard that name) - that they had to sign off because they put the railroad track back there - BL. Ok. HS. Mm hm. DK. Well, now, DPI would be back there, er, they - I'm sure they've taken all the railroad tracks out. BL. The Gilchrist Lumber Company office was right on that corner for the longest time. DK. Was it? BL. They tore that down about five, six years ago, um, on the corner of Ford and, and uh, Fletcher Street, and then the Gilchrist mill was behind that, toward the river. DK. They certainly made a mess of all that. BL. They sure did. DK. That pretty, (BL. Terrible) pretty land, uh, going out, 'cause, I mean, I - I've got that one picture of, uh, Vic and his dad in the - in the boat sitting, sitting on the - where they set it behind their house, and I've got a regular forest back there now. CK. Thank you!
Creators: Cindy Kus and Bob Lyngos, Interviewer; Doris Knechtel and Hattie Sheppler
, Interviewee
Media Type: Audio; Image; Text
Item Type: Interviews
Description: Longtime and lifetime Alpena residents, Doris Knechtel and Hattie Sheppler talk about growing up on the North side (Hattie) and the South side (Doris) of town. Local industry, entertainment, businesses and family ties are discussed in this interview that includes Alpena historian, Bob Lyngos.
Place of Publication: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Public Library
Date of Publication: 14 Dec 2015
Playing Time: 1:10:17
Subject(s): Alpena industry
Personal Name(s): Sheppler, Hattie ; Knechtel, Doris ; Graves, Husky ; Gourd, Otto ; Bolenz, Walter ; Lund, Dana ; Lund, Max ; Fletcher, P.K. ; Allen, Chester ; Cohen, Zoe ; Olson, Gudrun ; Old's Coal ; Fletcher, Mary ; Push-em Tony ; Rigg, Bobby ; Rigg, Tubby ; Hutton, Betty ; Gustin, Henry ; Oliver, Emily ; Besser, Anna
Corporate Name(s): Krueger's Butcher Shop ; St. Paul's Lutheran Church ; Marceau's Bakery ; Alpena Candy and Cigar ; Fletcher Paper Company ; Besser Company ; LeFave's Grocery ; Zadow Grocery ; Black and White Grocery ; Ryan's Restaurant and Bar ; Mich-e-ke-wis Park ; Lyric Theater ; Poor Farm ; Larsen's Furniture ; Trianon Ballroom ; Thunder Bay Manufacturing
Collection: Early Life in Alpena; Alpena Garment Factory
Language of Item: English
Copyright Statement: Protected by copyright: Uses other than research or private study require the permission of the rightsholder(s). Responsibility for obtaining permissions and for any use rests exclusively with the user.
Copyright Date: 2015
Copyright Holder: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Library
Contact: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Public Library
Email:specialcollections@alpenalibrary.org
Website:
https://www.alpenalibrary.org

Agency street/mail address:
211 N. First Ave.
Alpena, Michigan 49707
USA
(989)356-6188
Transcription: Meg Converse

Doris Knechtel & Hattie Sheppler Interview

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