Northeast Michigan Oral History and Historic Photograph Archive

Doris Knechtel & Hattie Sheppler Interview

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Interview Part 1: Interview Part 1
Transcription: CK: Today is December 14th, 2016, and I'm at the Alpena County Library, I'm Cindy Kus, and I'm sitting with Doris Knechtel and Hattie Sheppler and Bob Lyngos. We are interviewing Doris and Hattie to find out about early life in Alpena. So, one thing that I discovered, just yesterday, is that ah, Hattie was from the North Side- HS: Right. CK: -and Doris was from the South Side. DK: Big time (laughs). CK: So- what was the difference in those areas- I mean was there sort of a, any kind of stigma that went with one or the other? HS: Ah, not at first; because a lot of the really ah, prominent people, moved from the north side. There was, ah, Crow, A.B. Crow, and they, we all went to Lincoln School. Husky Graves, who was a law-, lawyer, ah, mayor of Lansing- BL: Mmm. HS: Wasn't he? And ah, Potvin, who became a very- DK: Graves? HS: -well known priest. DK: Husky Graves? HS: Husky Graves, yes. And, but, as they seemed, as they grew up and became more prominent, or wealthy, they moved to the South Side. So, for a while, and even now, there's a stigma, you know, connected with the North Side. Like if - if I say I live on Ford Avenue, oh my god (laughter), you live on Ford Avenue? Wow. BL: And it wasn't always Ford Avenue either. It was Mill Street. DK. That's right. BL. And it was Trowbridge for a while, so - HS: See, I don't remember Mill Street - yeah. BL. There was also a large Norwegian population on the North Side, also. HS. And a Polish- BL. And a Polish one, yes. HS. Polish population, yeah. Yeah, and, ah, but, ah, when my parents came over from Germany as immigrants, you know, to Ellis Island, they had sponsors, uh - BL. What was that word? They had what? HS. Sponsors. BL. Sponsors, ok. HS. Uh huh. And, uh, their sponsor I remember was a Mr. Polzin, who owned a grocery store, and how they were connected, I don't know, but he sponsored them to come here, so we've always lived on the North Side. BL. I think I might know - there was a gentleman named Otto Gjourd who had an office in the old, um, Kreuger's Butcher Shop that was- HS. Oh, yes. BL. - and he sold tickets, uh, on the Norwegian Line, and I'm sure he knew Potvin, because Potvin was a Norwegian- HS. Uhhuh. BL. - and I think there may have been a connection between those two. HS. There could have been. Yeah. But, uh, my grandparents came over with seven children when they left Germany . . . and so. ... CK. What a move. BL. What a move - that's - that's rather unusual. Usually the family- HS. I think about that now, you know- BL. Yeah, usually the family grew when they got here. HS. Right, uh huh - well there were a couple that were very young, you know, my youngest aunt and uncle, but there were some who were old enough to go to work, and they seemed to have, uh, skills of some kind when they came, you know . . . CK. A trade or something - HS. Like my uncle was a - a jeweler, you know, or uh, whatever you call them - that works with jewelry, and, my, uh, a couple of my uncles were, they worked in the factories here but, uh, I didn't know all about that, but I had heard, you know. CK. So those - those, you said those were your grandparents? HS. That came, yes, with my mother and - and her sisters and their brothers. CK. So your mother was one of those seven children. Ok. I'm trying to . . . and they all spoke German? HS. Yes, in fact, my oldest brother and I started school at the Avery school, and we couldn't speak English. But- it was not popular to be German - it was right - so we learned how to speak English in a hurry. And now I wonder why they have to have everything in a different language - why people come here aren't, you know, willing or expected to learn the English language because, yeah . . . we did. CK. Do you still speak German? HS. Ah, not well - because you don't use it. I can understand it, when, you know, but to speak it, I don't do a very good job. Bits and pieces, yeah. DK. But when you had to take care of your grandparents, you went back and you were speaking it very well. HS. Uh huh, I did - well, yes, I had to learn how to speak it again because that's what they spoke. BL. They didn't learn English? Or - HS. My grandparents did not. Very little. Uh, my grandfather worked for Linke's, the flower shop? And then he was custodian at the St. Paul's Lutheran Church for a few years. But, no, they didn't, but all the-, all their children of course did. BL. So that's the Knechtel connection, then? DK. No, I'm the Knechtel. BL. Oh, you're the Knechtel, there's a connection there with - with Margaret? DK. Yeah. HS. This is a Bolenz connection - a Bolenz connection, yeah. BL. Remember to talk about that. HS. Yeah, uh huh. But, uh, Mr. Linke was German, you know, and they kind of - I guess they kind of connected. DK. They . . . and they kind of . . .They took care of - they were all good workers. Always good workers. HS. Yeah, right, yeah. CK. So, was it one of your uncles, Hattie, who started the jewelry store? HS. Ah huh. Walter. CK. Ok. HS. Walter Bolenz. Yep, that's him. CK. And where was that - located? HS. It was on the North Side. Um, I'm trying to think just exactly where it was . . . BL. I think it was in . . . 'cause Freierts was in along there - my uncle worked for Freiert's plumber, and I think it's where JJ's Pizza - that restaurant is. HS. There was a restaurant- BL. Across from John Lau's. DK. Across from it. HS. There was a restaurant, unhuh. DK. And then after that it was a bike store, and a - all kinds of - BL. I got these from Kat Tomaszewski. HS. Oh, did you? Oh, ok. North Second, yeah, yep. Freiert, yeah, I remember. Johnny's Bar (laughter) - everybody knew that place. DK. And there was another one on the corner. HS. When, uh BL. And, um, did Kujawas have a bakery in there also at one time? HS. Kujawa worked for Douville. BL. Oh, worked for Douville - in that ar - it was in that area, though, ok. HS. Uh huh, it was on the north side and Kujawa was, um - I'm trying to think of his name - he worked for Douville's and later on he worked - also worked for Marceau's Bakery. BL. Ok, but there was a . . . HS. I don't think he had his own bakery. BL. Ok, 'cause I know his son, Bob, worked for - for in there also, HS. Oh, I'm sure, yeah BL. but there was another Douville's further up the block - further up Second Avenue then. HS. Yes, there was. BL. I didn't realize there had been two of them. HS. And that's when they used to have the, uh, bread trucks, and they, you know, took bread to all the stores. I mean, it wasn't like they do now- BL. Unhuh. HS. -it was the local bakeries that serviced the stores. DK. Bread didn't last for ten days, either. HS. So, yeah, I remember him. I remember he took his daughter - I was, um, five years older than she, and they used to like me to come over and, and spend time with her - she was an only child - and he took her and I, I think I was probably about maybe twelve and she was probably- CK. Seven . . . HS. Younger, and uh, he took us on the train and we went to a buying trip in Chicago. BL. Oh my goodness. HS. I remember that so well because the train left from here, you know, and they had the train and we went on the train, he went to, uh, Chicago on a buying trip and he took the two of us with him, and that was such an experience for me because, you know, I never got out of town, got out of the north side hardly ever - So that was, yeah. BL. Good. HS. And on his hundredth birthday, they had at his house on Ripley? BL. Mm hm? HS. And, uh, I asked him "Do you remember that trip?" "Oh, yes", he remembered - his mind was very sharp. I said, "Do you remember taking us?" and he said . . . BL. Now, when did he pass away? Uh . . . HS. Oh, golly, I don't really know the exact time, but- BL. Ok. That's ok. Now, you may have those pictures if you wish, there's copies there for you, yes. HS. Oh, really? Oh, my, thank you. CK. And so, did it stay - did the store stay in the family for . . .? HS. This is the third generation. CK. Third generation. Ok. HS. Mm hm. His daughter and her husband, uh, Bob Adams, and Wally, they had it, and then, uh, her daughter, Sue, and Wayne Calkins have it now. Yeah. I think it's - he would be very happy to see what they've done with it, you know. BL. Well, if - if we both think about the family businesses that were in Alpena that are gone - just, you know, I think Master's Shoes was probably one of the last ones, Masters and LaLonde and, you know, so many of those. HS. Uh huh, I know I remember the Kreugers, of course their meat market was on the north side, so we all used to get our meats from them. DK. I ran across a picture of, um, Kreugers where they had, uh, food stamps posted on the - during the war, you know how many food stamps BL. Oh, yeah, the ration stamps. DK. Yeah, the ration stamps. HS. That was quite the- DK. I ran across that last night when I was glancing through those things. HS. When you used up your stamps up and that was it. BL. Well, if you turn up any more pictures like that we'd love to get copies of them, like the Kreuger's picture and things like that. DK. Oh, yeah, there, there's some of those. BL. Good, thanks. HS. I don't know if, uh, my sister in law DK. I think - HS. -would have any, because my brother has . . . DK. I only have - there's only three of them there, but it's - it's a Kreuger out n -, I - of course I didn't live there, these, these must have been with the Knechtels. HS. See, my brother - youngest brother and his wife bought the Kreuger home on Hamilton Street, BL. Oh. HS. So she still lives there and my brother has passed, but I don't know if she would have anything, you know, that might be left in the house, you know? BL. That would be - that would be nice if it's - you're able to do that. HS. Uh huh, yeah. DK. And I was surprised when I ran across it, in his, um, corner, you know, how many food - how many ration stamps you needed or something like that, I kind glanced at it, I didn't even know it was in there, I couldn't remember. HS. I would - I would know when he died, because I do have the little, you know- CK. The card. HS. Card, but - BL. And we can look it up. HS. Offhand I don't . . . BL. No, we can look it up here, very easily, yeah. HS. Oh, you could look it up, sure you would. CK. Now, Kreuger's was a grocery, or -? DK. Meat market. BL. Meat market. HS. It was a meat market - they made their own sausage and everything, you know, and, and uh . . . BL. They cut some meat also, HS. Oh yes, yes. BL. But they were most famous for their German bologna and their- HS. Oh, yeah. BL. -mettwurst. HS. Mettwurst, yeah, I know. BL. And, uh, HS. That was wonderful. DK. Oh, yeah, I can remember that, we always used to fry it up. HS. I know. BL. And my dad was from Norway, and he loved their sausage; HS. Uh huh. BL. but we always had to go to Climie's Bakery for the bread. HS. Oh, I know. BL. Because the rye bread there was so good. HS. Climie's, yeah, Bakery. DK. Was Kreuger's in the same place as the Marine Market was at one time? Bob- the Kannowski's had- HS. No, the Marine Market was farther - uh, DK. Closer to the bridge? HS. Closer to the bridge. BL. Closer to the bridge - about - DK. Ok. BL. - in where the post office is now, I think, right in that block. DK. Yeah, that's - that's the one I remember. HS. I think so, yeah. CK. And was that a fish market? DK. Marine Market was same one, it was owned by the Kannowskis. CK. Oh, same as it is now. BL. Yeah, same - they called it Marine Market because they, uh, furnished food for the boats. HS. Yeah, and still do. BL. The freighters and everything - still do. DK. Still do. BL. And I've been on some of those boats and it's still wonderful, so- HS. Have you? Yeah, yup. Because they grew up in our neighborhood, they lived on Ford, the Kannowskis, you know and they, they're still friends with our boys and yeah, that was a close-knit neighborhood, yeah. BL. Well, that's nice. CK. What were some of the other businesses that were located in your neighborhood? HS. In our - on the North Side? Swallow's? Hardware? BL. Swallow Hardware. DK. Yeah . . . Cohen's? HS. Scott's Ice Cream Parlor. BL. Mm hm. HS. Yeah, we used to go and dance there, after school they had a section where you could go and have music. DK. Wasn't it Cohen's? HS. Cohen's Hardware? BL. Where Alpena Furniture is. DK. Yeah, and the, um, supply store, too - er, um, HS. Well, there were a couple of grocery stores there. DK. -that Carney used to work for it one time, Alpena Wholesale, um - CK. Alpena Candy and Cigar? DK. Yeah. BL. Right there. DK. Yeah, Alpena Candy and Cigar. Yeah. HS. The cigar company? Sure, the Cohen's owned that. DK. Mm hm. BL. Now that's what I want to ask you about, the picture I'm showing you is a - a made-up drawing and it shows the D&M Train and it shows the Alpena Bus Line. Now you must remember, I think, the bus line? HS. Yeah, uh huh. BL. Do you have any memories of the bus line? DK. Yeah, because I - I rode it when I, when I first, before I had a car, when I first got out of school - er, when I - yeah, when I first got out of school there was busses. Yeah. BL. Ok. They ran up until 1951 when they stopped them. DK. Yep. BL. And we had a hard time figuring out what color they were, DK. I can't remember. BL. -but they found a driver, and they were red and black. DK. Were they? HS. Were they? Red and black. I don't know if I ever rode the bus lines. DK. Oh, I, - I HS. We walked everywhere we went. I don't know if I ever . . . DK. I used to ride it to work. BL. And speaking of walking everywhere - do you remember when they were doing repairs on the 2nd Avenue bridge- HS. Oh, definitely. BL. and you had to go across - HS. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. BL. the - the, uh, catwalk, like- HS. Yes, yes. BL. on pontoons? HS. I do. Uh huh. BL. Was that pretty scary? HS. Oh, we loved it. I remember when the bridge used to swing. BL. Oh really. HS. It was a swinging bridge, and they used to let us stand on that bridge when they swung it? BL. Mm hm. HS. To let a boat go through? Yeah, and they- BL. And who did the swinging? Who was the- HS. Well, I don't know BL. -bridge man? HS. who the engineer was that did that, but I can remember standing on the bridge and then they'd swing it, and we'd watch the boat go through, and then they'd close it back up. CK. So instead of raising up like this, HS. Yeah, it would swing. BL. It would go, it would go like this, HS. Uh huh. BL. and the boats could go on either side. HS. Yeah, uh huh. It would. BL. It was a man by the name of Lund, but I forgot his first name. HS. Oh, was it? BL. One of the Lunds, HS. One of the Lunds. BL. He worked for like thirty years on that bridge. HS. Oh, really. See, I very, have a very good friend named Dana Lund, I don't know if she was connected with that. BL. I believe that a Max Lund is a- HS. Oh, Max? BL. Max is a desce- is one of the relatives, HS. Ok. BL. so I know they're - they're all related there. HS. Oh, I knew ah CK. Quinton and BL. Quintin, yes. Quintin and Elsa. HS. (inaudible) went to school with Quintin. DK. Elsa. BL. They were good friends, 'cause we all went to Grace Church together. HS. And Douglas Lund. Oh, yes, yes, I'm sure you did. DK. Ok. HS. I just had a call on my answering machine from Anne the other day. She's in Ann Arbor now. Anne's in Ann Arbor. CK. Did - So you went to Avery School? HS. Uh huh. Avery - and Avery was kindergarten, first and second grade. CK. Ok. HS. And then you went over to Lincoln, started at third through eighth. BL. Oh. Hm. CK. Interesting. And how about you, Doris, where did you go to school? DK. I went on the South Side, I went to kindergarten was at the Lockwood School, isn't anymore. First through third was the Baldwin School, and then I went to McPhee. BL. Hm. DK. There isn't any of . . . and that was up to the eighth grade. BL. Now the Lockwood school was on the corner of Third - of Fourth and . . . DK. I don't know what that . . . BL. Lewis. DK. Lewis, yeah. BL. Part of it is still there. DK. Yeah. BL. 'Cause it - it burned - the top story burned, then they made it a two-story building, and then eventually it became a one-story building. DK. I hadn't thought about it in years. But you know when you say the North Side, the North Side back then was more prof - more - the people there had more money than the South Side had; the bulk of the people. Where - where our home was, which is by the gas plant, the last nice house was Fletcher's, had already built there at the corner of Campbell, or at the end of Campbell. BL. P.K. Fletcher. Phillip. DK. Yeah. And um . . . the Allen's, they had a lovely home. BL. Chester Allen and Lillian. DK. Yeah, yeah. And then they had that house, the Hamilton's - and, uh, theirs was not . . . it's still there, because somehow or other there - there must've been something when they sold it. CK. The little yellow house? DK. Yeah. CK. Mm hm. DK. That. 'Cause she only owns back to - and then, then after that, it was a lot of vacant lots. Our - we played ball from Crapo St. down, I mean, they were, there was lots of vacant lots that you could play, or they were summer homes. BL. Well, I understand there was a dairy in that region pretty close- DK. Oh, yeah. BL. -and even a farm? DK. Yeah. Oh, yeah. At one time there was horses right across the street from us. McGilvery had horses over there. In fact, in the house right next to us, he lived there for a while and he had a horse. BL. And were people keeping chickens and things in the back yard at that time yet or not so much? DK. He didn't, no, he was strictly, he was strictly horses. BL. Ok. DK. And uh, yeah, but I mean, it wasn't - it wasn't real prosperous, it, I mean there were a lot of vacant lots. CK. And it was - DK. Particul - particularly on the side that wasn't the lake. BL. Mm hm. DK. And the ones that were on the lake, um, a lot of 'em were just summer places like the Coville's was just a summer place, um . . . I can't remember all of 'em. BL. Was that the Douvilles, did you say? CK. Coville's. BL. Co - Coville's, ok. DK. It's, it's at - it's at the foot of Blair. BL. Ok. DK. And it's still closed up in the winter, I think they still where . . . CK. But your home was right on the lake. DK. Yeah. Beautiful, we - and we had riparian rights and all and all this kind of stuff. And uh, it, I mean, it was the, it was gorgeous, I mean the lake was gorgeous, but it was not built up. You had - Tolson's had a store up there, uh, and they used to keep deer and stuff in a pen that you could pet, and, and you had, uh, how many restaurants and stuff as you went on out that way . . . bars . . . BL. We have a great picture of Mr. Tolson holding a deer in his arms. DK. Yeah . . . yeah. And, uh, but I mean it wasn't, it wasn't - didn't have the reputation of being where you, the elite meet, when you got as far as my house. (Laughter) CK. So you were more on the outskirts of town, would you say that? DK. Yeah . . . it wasn't really the outskirts, I mean there were houses out there, but nobody fussed whether you had a horse in your back yard, and they, you know, people didn't cut their lawns way down or anything - get a horse in. (Laughter) HS. Chew the grass. DK. But, uh, it, it was just - CK. It was more thriving on the North Side at that point. DK. Because they could work at the plants, they were into the quarries and they got paid more money. HS. Cement plant. DK. My Dad worked for the Ford Motor - uh, Ford Motor Company, he was a parts man, he worked for Fred Steele, I mean, all the way up, that's - that's all he did, you know, and uh, he was a parts man, and he built carburetors, he didn't have an education or anything. BL. And there was Fletcher Paper, too, and the Besser Company, DK. Yes. BL. there was a lot of opportunity on that side of town. DK. Yes, there was. HS. The Cement Plant. BL. The Cement Plant, absolutely. DK. It makes a difference. HS. Uh huh. DK. And - CK. They were closer, they'd be closer to work. DK. And, uh, the gas plant - I, I don't, of course I was too young, I don't even know how they got the gas out, but it was the most fascinating place to me to go and watch it - why my mother would ever allow me to go there, I don't know! BL. Into the plant? DK. Oh, yeah, 'cause you could walk , you know, right through the - and they, they had these big furnaces, and they were long and these fellows worked so hard. There were, I think there were three furnaces, and then they'd pull the coal out of there, hot, and pour water onto it, and then they'd put it in wheelbarrows and take it all the way out, right onto the lake, right on the - well, where, where um- BL. Myssels' house was? No. DK. No, no - she, she's over from where, that was property of that, but that, but the uh, coal pile was right where, uh, McCoy's house was. BL. Ok. DK. Right down there, right on the thing, 'cause some of it would go into the water. BL. Well, you know a few years ago they had to take all that soil out because it was polluted. DK. Well he came out smelling like a ro- HS. That's right, I remember that - I remember when they did that. BL. Well basically what they did was heat coal in those ovens and then capture the vapors, and that was the gas, is what they were doing. DK. I guess so - I mean you would know, I don't, I - but it was fascinating, they'd pull all this out and pour it (making sound effects). CK. And then you could just walk in and watch 'em. DK. We were kids in the neighborhood, they - nobody cared where we went. (Laughter) HS. That was just like when my mother and her sisters worked at the Garment Factory, we as kids were allowed to go in there and ask my mother a question. BL. Oh my gosh! HS. "Can we go here, can we go there?" We'd walk down the aisles and you'd hear buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, machines are going, nobody ever stopped us, we'd go in there and my mother was working, "Can we do this, can we do that?" and nobody ever stopped us from doing that, yeah. BL. Do you remember what was on the corner of State and, um, Campbell Street across from the Fletcher house? DK. Sure, Reinke's, um, had a grocery store there and right behind it was another grocery store, um . . . that, that's always, that was a grocery store. BL. Ok. Ok, because there were only neighborhood groceries at that time, until - DK. Yeah. BL. -like the A&P came in probably. DK. Yeah - until the A&P came. HS. We had two in our neighborhood, we had the LeFave grocery (DK: in background: - Reinke's in . . . and then she married, um . . .) on the corner of Ford and, uh, Hubert, is it? And then, Zadow's grocery was down on the corner of uh, Second and Alfred. BL. Ok. HS. The Zadow grocery, there were two brothers and two sisters who ran that store. BL. There were two sisters that ran - is that the one on Hubert and Ford? HS. Uh. BL. There were two sisters that ran that for a long time afterward. DK. That was LaFave's. BL. That - that was LaFave's. Ok. HS. That was LaFave. No, the Zadow grocery was on the corner of Second and, uh, Alfred. DK. Alfred. BL. Ok. At one time, there were between 35 and 40 neighborhood grocery stores in Alpena. HS. Oh, I believe it, I know. My mother used to have a tab there, you - you know, and we could go and they paid like once a week and when you went or whenever, maybe every time they got paid, and, uh, CK. Like the westerns on TV. (laughs) HS. She sent us down to pay the bill and we'd get a sack of candy - they'd give you a sack of candy for paying the bill! BL. For paying, because you were good payers. HS. (all: Laughter) So, anyway. CK. And then I heard you talking about the Black and White grocery, too . . . HS. Well, that was on Second Avenue, that was on - across the river. Across from ah, Ryan's . . . Ryan's, um, Restaurant? Know where that was? DK. From, across from Culligan's Plaza BL. Yes, in where the Penney's store was? Along in there somewhere? DK. The Penney's store, and then the Black and White. HS. There was Emmick's hat store, Pickett's on the corner, Pickett's on . . DK. But the Black and White was across the street. HS. Yeah, it was across the street. BL. Then Emmick's hat, next to Pickett's? HS. Uh huh. BL. Is that where Zoa Cohen had her hat shop later? HS. Yes, uh huh, and then Ryan's Restaurant and Bar was next door to them, and the Black and White was right across the street, 'cause I was a waitress at Ryan's and they used to get their groceries from- DK. Black and White. HS. Black and White, right across the street, it was a restaurant and a - well, they had beer CK. They served - HS. Beer- CK. food there, too? HS. Oh, yeah, it was very popular. BL. Ok. Did Polzin run the Black and White, did you say? DK. No. BL. Or no. DK. Wilson HS. Wilson, yeah. BL. But Polzin was in that area? HS. No, he was - wasn't he on the North Side? BL. Ok, maybe he was. HS. Yeah, I'm quite sure he was. DK. I know the Wilsons had the Black and White. BL. Ok. HS. Yeah, so . . . anyway. DK. 'Cause I went to school with Dick- HS. Mm hm. DK. -at that time. BL. I remember my Aunt Gudrun Olson had a bulldog in the early days and she went into the store, and the owner said "What's the name of the dog?" and she was just about to say it - the dog's name was Roland - and she remembered that the owner's son was named Roland, so she didn't want to say, she said something like 'Rover' or 'Spot'. HS. She gave it a different name, did she? (Laughing). BL. Yes. DK. Does anybody ever talk about uh, at the foot of Park Place, where they used to have fish? They had - there was the - the dump. BL. And there was a fishery there? DK. Yeah, they used to have little fish- BL. Ok. DK. and there was a - a green house - I can remember it was green and supposedly- HS. Oh, you mean the color of the house, was green. DK. Yeah, the color of the house. BL. There was a fish hatchery there, behind City Hall- DK. Yeah, mm hm. BL. -that's the one you're thinking of. DK. Right. Right down at the foot of that street. BL. Mm hm. DK. Of course then there was a creamery at the, uh, on Chisholm St. BL. Ok. DK. There was a creamery there, BL. Ok. DK. 'cause my - my grandmother's house was right where - where that, uh, why I think it's empty now, uh, used to be beyond, beyond Save A Lot on the other corner. HS. Where the hatchery - where the fish BL. So you, she was near where the Carter house was, the supposed oldest house in Alpena, it was built in 1860, it was right about where, it was in where Billy French had his machine shop in there? DK. Billy French was over here (tapping). HS. Oh yeah, I remember him (laughs). DK. Here's the street, here and she was on Park Place, HS. Uh huh. DK. . . . and the dump was here. CK. The dump was on The Lake? BL. Yup. DK. Yeah, the dump was on The Lake at one time. BL. It was there for a long time in the 1960's. DK. Yes, it was. BL. -and early '70s. I went down there, digging for bottles. DK. And my brothers used to go down there and shoot . . . shoot rats and . . . (Laughter). CK. (Laughing) have a good time! BL. Have a good time. DK. That was great, man. BL. Oh, that was a big sport in Alpena. DK. She had a - she had a, a big house, she had a house right down there, it was real nice - it was a big. CK. Your grandma? DK. Yeah. BL. We probably have a picture of it. DK. On my mother's side. BL. Probably have a picture of it somewhere. DK. It's uh, and uh, Chapleskis' used to live down there. CK. What was her name? DK. Her name was Kennedy. Uh, the, she was marri-, this was her second marriage. CK. Mm hm. DK. My mother's maiden name was Francis. CK. Ok. DK. Anyway. But I can remember going down there, and that was a fascinating place to go watch, too. BL. I bet. (Laughter) DK. See, we had all kinds of good things to look at! BL. And there was a ballpark back there, too, behind the City Hall, I've seen it in pictures. Somewhere in there. DK. Mmmm. Could've been, could've been. HS. Ah. Back there, hmm. DK. But, um, and then of course then they had the - Kennedys had the fish places where, you know, like where their docks were. Where the, uh, Senior Citizen's Center is, in there. There was the Kennedy bu - , uh, Fish Dock and the Gunderson's. BL. Yeah, I think the Gunderson's were probably the last one in that area. DK. I think so BL. And I remember going there. DK. I think so. Yeah I think, uh . . . HS. Well, didn't the Dutchers have a fish-? DK. They were uh, they were s - they were, they were not, uh, on, they, to my knowledge they were not on that territory. HS. I remember along The Lake . . . DK. I think, I think, I think I think someplace along the line that they used to sell from the North Side someplace. HS. They did, uh huh. BL. I see. DK. But I don't know whether HS. But I don't know whether they had bought the fish - (interruption) DK. I don't- HS. -- and sold them or whether they caught 'em. DK. I know they were fishermen. BL. They fished, they did a lot at El Ca- (HS., DK., speaking all together - inaudible) DK. They were fishermen, but I don't know where. HS. Nordstrands, also, Nordstrand's fish, but- DK. And that was much later than, than the Kennedys and the, the Gundersons. BL. The Dutchers fished a lot, uh, in El Cajon Bay and north, up in that area. DK. Mm hm. HS. Oh, did they, uh huh? BL. Yes, so it would make sense that they would. HS. Sell on the North Side. BL. Sell from the North Side probably. DK. See what a dull life you led? (Laughs) HS. Well, I remember along The Lake, where they had the Piepkorn Coal, BL. Mm hm. HS. And Olds coal, you know, because they used deliver it to our house and chute it down the basement; we had a coal furnace, you know, and uh, I remember that DK. So do I, I worked for Ole's Coal. HS. You bought it, you bought it by the ton, usually. CK. So a truck would come- HS. Uh huh. CK. With a chute- HS. Uh huh, and I still have the chute in my house, you know. BL. The door- HS. It's just a metal - metal door, and uh, yeah, they'd chute it down the basement. I'm still in the same house, I've been there for sixty-five years. BL. Wow. DK. When uh, when we had a coal furnace, too. HS. Oh, everybody did. DK. And at that time there were - there were three houses built on two lots, and the lots on State Street are only ssssss - sixty some- BL. Sixty- six. DK. Ok. But there were three houses, mind you, so our driveway, our driveway - and that was a challenge - you got to drive the car when you could back it out - but uh, when, uh, we had coal, after they once, uh, we used to get it from the back, they'd come in and put the coal in. And when they sold that little Model A truck, they had to put a coal chute in the front of the house, because you couldn't get - a truck would not go through there! (Laughter) BL. I often wondered in the South Side and the North Side, some of the houses are- DK. Oh, yeah. BL. -two or three feet apart! DK. Yeah, and shared driveways, a lot of 'em. BL. And how do you - how do you paint that, and I - was that just for economy's sake, do you think? DK. I guess people thought that's all they needed. BL. They didn't need a yard. DK. No. BL. People didn't live outside that much, I guess. HS. I don't know. DK. Well, that's . . . and look over there right now, uh, the people that bought my Mom's house, they've only got - what, 35 feet, I think it is? BL. Mm hm. DK. And then, 'course, the other house that was setting next to it, McCoy bought, and he's - he bought it before the other fellow died. BL. Yeah. DK. And then he just enlarged his, but other than that, he was . . . BL. Well that was Nesbitt's house to begin with. DK. Mm hm. BL. Yes. CK. Hm. BL. Dr. Nesbitt DK. So, anyway. CK. So . . . I just wanna, I wanna put a time frame to this, 'cause I know - don't think we've discussed that. So when the fish docks were, or the fish . . . companies, were down by where you said the Senior Citizens is now? Around what year are we talking? What time? Just . . . DK. The fish docks, they went out. HS. (Quietly) I'm not sure - you probably would know, Bob, about it. DK. They had to go out, probably in the 30s. CK. Ok. DK. Probably in the 30s, I don't know, maybe . . . '37, '38, in that territory. BL. When they went out of business? DK. Yeah. BL. Yeah. And they probably started? DK. Because the fish didn't - weren't, BL. No. DK. - weren't biting either. BL. No. DK. er . . . BL. And they would've started in the 1900s, early 1900s for sure DK. Yeah. Mm hm. BL. And maybe a little bit before that. DK. Mm hm. And I, I wasn't around them that much because my mother of course, we didn't live there. CK. Right, you didn't live on that side. There must've been a fair amount of activity on The River back then, because you had the, um, Fletcher Paper, was in, going full- HS. We used to - I didn't see much of the fish boats, but we used to watch the cement boats, you know, we could see 'em coming in from our house, and then . . . BL. But on the river, the coal boats were probably the most prominent. HS. Yeah, probably. BL. . . . because they would deliver the coal to Fletcher and to the coal yards up there and at the mouth of the river. HS. Right. CK. Where did the coal come from? BL. Um, south, probably. Somewhere. CK. Brought it up on trains, or? DK. Uh uh, uh-uh. BL. No, on by ship. DK. By ship. CK. By ship, by ship, of course.
Creators: Cindy Kus and Bob Lyngos, Interviewer; Doris Knechtel and Hattie Sheppler
, Interviewee
Media Type: Audio; Image; Text
Item Type: Interviews
Description: Longtime and lifetime Alpena residents, Doris Knechtel and Hattie Sheppler talk about growing up on the North side (Hattie) and the South side (Doris) of town. Local industry, entertainment, businesses and family ties are discussed in this interview that includes Alpena historian, Bob Lyngos.
Place of Publication: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Public Library
Date of Publication: 14 Dec 2015
Playing Time: 1:10:17
Subject(s): Alpena industry
Personal Name(s): Sheppler, Hattie ; Knechtel, Doris ; Graves, Husky ; Gourd, Otto ; Bolenz, Walter ; Lund, Dana ; Lund, Max ; Fletcher, P.K. ; Allen, Chester ; Cohen, Zoe ; Olson, Gudrun ; Old's Coal ; Fletcher, Mary ; Push-em Tony ; Rigg, Bobby ; Rigg, Tubby ; Hutton, Betty ; Gustin, Henry ; Oliver, Emily ; Besser, Anna
Corporate Name(s): Krueger's Butcher Shop ; St. Paul's Lutheran Church ; Marceau's Bakery ; Alpena Candy and Cigar ; Fletcher Paper Company ; Besser Company ; LeFave's Grocery ; Zadow Grocery ; Black and White Grocery ; Ryan's Restaurant and Bar ; Mich-e-ke-wis Park ; Lyric Theater ; Poor Farm ; Larsen's Furniture ; Trianon Ballroom ; Thunder Bay Manufacturing
Collection: Early Life in Alpena; Alpena Garment Factory
Language of Item: English
Copyright Statement: Protected by copyright: Uses other than research or private study require the permission of the rightsholder(s). Responsibility for obtaining permissions and for any use rests exclusively with the user.
Copyright Date: 2015
Copyright Holder: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Library
Contact: Alpena County George N. Fletcher Public Library
Email:specialcollections@alpenalibrary.org
Website:
https://www.alpenalibrary.org

Agency street/mail address:
211 N. First Ave.
Alpena, Michigan 49707
USA
(989)356-6188
Transcription: Meg Converse

Doris Knechtel & Hattie Sheppler Interview

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